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Government say's cheaper insurance after course

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Norrie View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 10:00am
I just read an article (BBC News) that the UK Government is suggesting drivers will get cheaper insurance if they attend a Cyclist awareness course. It does not say how much the course costs.

Whilst I am sure we all agree no one wishes to see an Cyclist injured or killed, I have always thought it was crazy that somebody can buy a bike, no helmet, no protective gear, no tax, no insurance, no test, no medical declaration and ride on a road whereby it is a dual carriage way and vehicles can go at 70 mph.

A speed awareness course is about 90 pounds and half a day away from work, so the insurance discount would need to be generous, unless the course is free.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 10:51am
Why do cyclists not have to attend a generaL traffic awareness course?  They are their own worst enemy, and then blame their injuries or frightening incidents on others.

I would like to see cycles registered, number plated, and insured, as are other vehicles, and the riders subject to a cycling proficency test before being let loose on public roads.

A day in London leaves one with a loathing of all cyclists, after having to dodge them riding on pavements, jumping red lights, and generally offering no consideration or courtesy to others.

I really try to be nice to cyclists, but they do little to help themselves - even here in France one often sees cyclists pulling intothe traffic stream without any rear observation whatever, riding in a tightly-packed bunch, often two or three abreast, making overtaking difficult if not impossible.  The wretched Dutch are even worse, sometimes riding through my garden as a convenient short cut!  When I remonstrate with them they look SO surprised . . . last time I threatened to jump on their spokes if they tried it again - they did not return!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 11:29am
The insurance industry doesn't believe any discount will be forthcoming, as the total payouts for bike-related accidents are about 0.1% of the total - so they'd only offer that same saving in premiums.

Is anyone going to bother for a potential 10p-£1 saving?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Rice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 12:32pm
Cyclists and Horse riders using the highway should have some form of license, insurence and training IMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 6:34pm
And car drivers are all perfect ? License, tax and insurance means no car drivers ever make a mistake ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Rice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 11:52pm
No bodys perfect but it does seem a bit bias when associating blaime

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 10:56am
I've never ridden a horse, but have regularly driven, cycled and walked in the US, Germany, UK and Holland. 90% of the issues I've seen have been down to impatient car drivers. I've never seen a problem caused by professional drivers such as truck and bus drivers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmwcarclubinsurance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 9:54am
Hi,

Thought I'd jump on this as it's one I personally haven't heard of... yet? :)

With the limited amount of insurers offering discounts for dash cams, which are very useful in the event of claim, I am not sure if insurer discounts for courses will be unanimous across the board... For example of our panel of 40+ insurers currently on 2 or 3 offer dash cam discounts.

It's not something that's come to our attention as of yet though so can't really speculate on what the future holds with the course you mention.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 5:26pm
Carlie - you would need to ask the BBC to justify the validity of their source and article. I don't need a course to tell me someone on a bike, a pedestrian, horse rider, loose dog or animal, scooter rider or motorcyclist need to be given a wide berth.

However, those idiots who jump traffic lights on cycles ( as often happens at Dorking (a keen location for these people) will end up mashed if they are not more careful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 5:40pm
What is frustrating is that the majority of cyclists that choose to ignore the traffic regulations also drive, and are therefore well aware that what they are doing is wrong. Perhaps if points were added to their car licence for misdemeanours on their cycle they would reconsider their actions. After all points in a car also affect a motorcycle licence and vice versa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 11:50am
It is 'always' someone else's fault when a cyclist comes to grief - even when they place themselves in danger.  They have a far more powerful lobby than other vehicle users , and the ear of the powerful. 

A few years ago their pressure group - Cycling UK - tried to get a law passed which, irrespective of where blame lay, meant that the car driver's insurance company had to pay damages to the cyclist.   Thankfully the insurance industry successfully fought this.

We are always being told of the 'carnage' on Britain's roads, but no-one ever mentions the Killed and Serously Injured rate for cyclists, which last time I looked, was SEVEN times that of car users!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 12:04pm
I am trying to understand how a car driver makes a claim against a cyclist that causes damage to a car? There is no number plate, if the person refuses to give their details and simply cycles off is that just too bad. The Police don't have resources to do anything about this and if no one is injured they would not want to know. This leads me to understand why drivers then might pursue the cyclist and potentially use the car as a weapon to gain revenge. This of course, is an offence but the disproportionate bias towards the cyclist may explain such actions?

Edited by Norrie - 30 Nov 2018 at 12:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 1:07pm
The cyclist would claim that the coming together was all the fault of the car driver!  I am sure that some cyclists purposefully put themselves in danger to score points of Youtube via their helmet cams!

This is why we need registration and licencing for cyclists, even though it would cause a lot of unrest and go-slow demos in London, and would be impossible to enforce as the police would not care - all they care about is speeding and peadophiles, as the government place a prority on it.  Even burglers go free these days, due to lack of official interest, never mind idiot cyclists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 1:28pm
I would like to say I have a bike, I do not ride it on the public roads, I live opposite a big park where it can we cycled without any danger to anyone. There are also areas designated for cyclists. No vehicles are permitted in the Park.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by Norrie Norrie wrote:

the disproportionate bias towards the cyclist

People on bikes do not have crumple zones, seatbelts, ABS, airbags, active braking etc. People in cars have all this whilst they navigate two tons of metal at high speed through public places.
Please stop blaming people on bikes, most accidents are caused by poor driving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 3:56pm
Yes - but when the acident involves a bicycle, in too many cases contact could have been avoided by the cyclist using anticipation and not getting themselves into a dangerous situation.

A typical example is as follows: 

(a) Cyclist is plodding along a cycle lane towards traffic light.  He wishes to go straight on at the lights.

(b) An HGV is planning to turn left at the lights, and as it slows for the turn the cyclist continues plodding on, and becomes alongside the rear wheels.  He feels that as he is in a cycle lane he is 'in the right.'

(c) HGV turns left without either adequate vision on its nearside, or no vision, due to the absence of a blind spot mirror on that side.

(d) Cyclist is now in a no-win position, and becomes trapped between the rear wheels and the kerb.  He is happy because he is in the right.  He is looking downwards past his front wheel, and is oblivious to the risks.

(e) HGV rear wheel turn cyclist into mincemeat . . .

A similar situation just before the London Olympics involved a cyclist and a coach filled with Media hacks, in which the cyclist was crushed under the rear wheels of the coach.  Lots of facebbok users etc remarked on what a wonderful person he was - but none remarked on what a stupid cyclist he was!

The inevitable conclusion is that if the cyclist had any wit whatever, he would not have been on the inside of the HGV in case it turned left. He would have considered the possible risks, and hung back until after the traffic lights, and then continues to plod along happily.

If he is lucky only his bicycle has been crushed under the wheels, and as he sits on the kerb nursing a broken arm he will be cursing the stupid HGV driver who caused the accident by not seeing him.  Strictly speaking he is correct - BUT if he was not insulated from reality by 'Being in the right' as he thinks, he would not have been in such a position in the first place, and so from a moral point of view caused the accident.

The moral is that no matter how 'right' you think you are, it is better to give ground and ride safely, using one's powers of observation and anticipation - qualities which seem to be missing from all too many road users today.

Another good example is the cyclist who was overtaking a row of cars on the inside (forbidden, but now accepted practice) and was 'Doored' by the Minister of Transport.  There were lots of sympathetic comments for cyclist, but no-one asked why he was in such a situation, and why he was not travelling a sufficiently low speed to stop . . .

I have seen so many cases where the above scenario applies, and can only add that there are plenty of bold cyclists (and motorcyclists) and plenty of old ones - but few old and bold ones!



Edited by Mike Fishwick - 30 Nov 2018 at 4:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 6:54pm
so no accountability for texting drivers who plough into schoolkids ? The kids should have watched out for the driver and got out of the way ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 9:20pm
Read my post again Nick - my point was that, although the cyclist was strictly speaking within the law, with some anticipation he would not have placed himself in such a dangerous position.  It is little use to be claiming 'I was in the right' from a hospital bed.

Children being run over by texting drivers etc, while most regrettable, is, in this case, a red herring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 11:21am
Nick DE. I think you need to drive down to Box Hill near Dorking on any Sunday. There you will see hundreds, yes hundreds of cyclists in all their gear on expensive bikes. There are a number of those who do not believe red lights apply to them, giving way does not apply. I saw a guy nearly get killed by a truck as I was stationery at a red light, he road in between myself and a vehicle next to me, straight though the red light at about 20-30 mph and narrowly missed being injured and causing and accident.

There are, of course, many, many incidents whereby motorists are to blame for accidents. The point which you miss is that any idiot can buy a bike and rubber suit, they dont need anyone to instruct them or regulate them and off they go. These people even get flashed by the speed camera down at Box Hill and can't get caught. It is one Law for motorists and one other for cyclists.

Edited by Norrie - 01 Dec 2018 at 11:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 11:25am
How long until someone pulls out the old line about drivers paying road tax so having more entitlement than everyone else ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 1:29pm
The Government makes the laws as they are elected by the people. We all know that there is a massive effort to get people to do exercise and cycling is a good example. For these political reasons politicians wish to ignore the balance between road use by cars and cyclists. Cyclists do not cause pollution, so that is in their favour, they also take up less room. However, when the stealth tax ends and motorists are forced off the road. Such as Mayor Khan's rules of 14 pounds per day for certain vehicle congestion charge, who will pay for the roads?

When one gets past Morpeth you are lucky to see a sheep let alone any car congestion. The A1 gets snagged up around Newcastle for the metro centre and at peak periods, but with any due respect, not compatible to the South East of England. I have done that journey from London to Grangemouth many, many times stopping at Newark on the way for meetings, hence the A1 route.

Edited by Norrie - 01 Dec 2018 at 1:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Norrie Norrie wrote:

when motorists are forced off the road who will pay for the roads?

Taxpayers, just like taxpayers pay for them now. It will just cost less, as infrastructure for walking and cycling is cheaper to build and maintain than the infrastructure needed for driving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by Norrie Norrie wrote:

When one gets past Morpeth you are lucky to see a sheep let alone any car congestion.

That's why the NE Region drive out's are so good. Plus the fabulous scenery and good company of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 4:45pm
I am sure the above is true even the Vikings didn't have a problem getting around.
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