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Concours Mileage Points

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steveH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steveH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2009 at 10:37pm
Ken, there is no dispute here, your car is stunning and a credit to your care over these last 18 years or so and you certainly deserve all the wins you have had over this time. Well done and long may your success continue. Then again bring along both your cars ala GordonH and try for a 1,2!!
Tell it how it is the Northern way.
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KennethC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KennethC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2009 at 8:51pm
I would Steve but it is not a BMW but it is German! I donot think this marque would be very popular in the club with some members.
 


Edited by KennethC - 01 Apr 2009 at 9:03pm
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hennabm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hennabm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2009 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by steveH steveH wrote:

Ok Guys we are aware of your stance but lets try to explain the full picture not just a snap shot at mileage & originality.
 
We have tried to move the goal posts so seasoned campaigners, like yourselves move into MasterClass as predominantly they are Show Cars (Gerards may be exception rather than the rule here). We all know the rules on Originality and which are allowed and which not, but it will encourage others to try concours at entry level without the incumberance of Originality points. Also on this basis most cars seldom see many miles per year therefore judging should be down to presentation and detail in terms of cleanliness and condition.
Age points are given to 'adjust' for 'age' so balances up young to old acknowleging the difficulties and extra effort needed on older cars.  This is un-doubtedly Fair.
 
Mileage points are therefore simply an added bonus which should , it could be argued, be only used in a tie-break situation. However as a senario and taking Kens car would last year give an 'extra' 11points. This against say my car at 30k miles ie 3 points would give Ken a 8points starting advantage despite all the restoration work carried out over number of years and that now they probably do similar minimal annual miles.  This now seems un-fair, I trust you will agree, as at these standards nine points takes alot of pulling back and near impossible as Kens car drops so few. Thus the points were changed to 1 per 20k so given above would still give the higher miler an advantage but more a reasonale 4/5 points. These 'bonus' points of 4/5 may still play a part in the final results but given Kens sucess over many years I cannot see it changing to detract from Kens continuing sucess.
 
To date, whilst the arguments continue over the system employed for recognising mileage we have not yet seen anyone come up with a better (read Fairer) method.    
 
Finally, I personally appeal to Gerard, Mike and Ken to compete this year at Chatsworth and lets see if these minor changes really do make any real differences to your scores or placings.
steveH
 
 
 
Age and mileage should be considered together as an older car with less miles is likely to be in better condition than one with higher mileage. This is the position of Ken's and mine and a few others as well. Because they were cars that had seen action, there are the tell tales of this even now.
 
If you are asking for suggestions, then we have no better than the one that has served the club for a good number of years and the one under which Ken and I have been subject to over our many years of concoursing.
 This has been without any whinging or whining about originality etc.
 
As for this year - we will be watching with interest.
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steveH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steveH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2009 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by KennethC KennethC wrote:

I would Steve but it is not a BMW but it is German! I donot think this marque would be very popular in the club with some members.
 
We pity your unfortunate deviation from the Roundel 
Tell it how it is the Northern way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2009 at 9:01pm
The way which i see this, is that it suits the garage Queen's which never get used. and never see a wet road, which is so easy to keep clean..then they come out to play for Concours.
 
Try doing 12k plus a year and keeping it to Concours standards, very hardwork.
 
Scrap the mileage points altogether, or bring M.O.T cert into play.
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hennabm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hennabm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2009 at 9:14pm
It was interesting to note that most Open class cars were under 10 years old. Some were alot newer than that which makes cleaning easy. Believe me I have an 18mth old car with 5k on the clock and it is easy to keep looking good.
The idea of the committee was to leave open class to the more regularly used vehicles and "promote" the so called garage queens to master class. Then the problems really begin because they are all in one class and without mileage or age points we have the travesty of a 6mth old car winning over older cars. This is where age and mileage MUST count otherwise it is an unlevel field (a bit like s*tworth)
82 323i Henna
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2009 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by hennabm hennabm wrote:

The idea of the committee was to leave open class to the more regularly used vehicles and "promote" the so called garage queens to master class.
 
The Queens still enter open class, which leaves the daily driver on the back burner, either way needs to be said bring an independant judge or judge's on the day. as comments have been made and over heared which isnt fair, ie dont like this but like that, not keen on that but the Zm stands out..  plus when have date's on tyre's been part of a score sheet???????
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hennabm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hennabm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2009 at 11:02pm
That is why mileage allowance is used  to try and compensate for the extra toll that is placed on road cars.
It always has been and will be a balance between the car used daily and those used less often.
There was at least one car that drove around 400 miles to get to the event and still won its class! So it can be done - it just takes time and money like most things associated with vehicles.
I have suffered at the hands of an independant judge in the past. He was adamant my car should have been fitted with a certain part but it never was or has. So the judge needs to know the breed at least, to be a fair judge.
Judges may well have personal opinions of what vehcles they prefer (just like anyone else) but any judge worth their salt will put that to one side and judge on condition ONLY.
It also gets more difficult to maintain their sheen and keep using them as vehicles get older.
 
Dates on tyres?? why not - have you seen RS owners, some even have the original tyre sticker on the tread of the tyre. Maybe it was adeciding factor. The only one that could explain the reasoning behind it is the judge themselves.
82 323i Henna
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10 116d Sport
12 1.4 Punto Easy
89 240DL est
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2009 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by hennabm hennabm wrote:

 
Dates on tyres?? why not - have you seen RS owners, some even have the original tyre sticker on the tread of the tyre. Maybe it was adeciding factor. The only one that could explain the reasoning behind it is the judge themselves.
 
Yes i have seen the RS owners, as i myself have been a member, not only in that club but also many others inc Capri International and XROC.
 
So have seen a fair share of Concours over the past 15 years or so.
 
Never once have i seen a judge check a first aid kit, which is fitted from standard on many models, so if dates need to be checked on tyres, many other parts should also be checked, which arent, inc wheel chock.
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steveH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steveH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2009 at 11:27pm
Judging is onerous enough, as Mike is well aware, so having to check tyres,first-aid kits, chocks, glass, etc etc for date stamps sounds a step too far.
Tyres sould be checked for roadworthyness, cleanliness, compatibility etc and whilst date is of interest (especially to AMac)I do not believe any tyres with different dates will be penalised BUT will check with the orracle.
Tell it how it is the Northern way.
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plip1953 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plip1953 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2009 at 9:32pm
As a 635 CSi owner I have another type of gripe! And that is having my 6 judged against models other than 6s. Of course, in the "good ole days" we used to get half a dozen 6s turn up at the annual Harewood event - Derek Kaye, David Smith and Dennis Dodson generally shared the honours - and rightly so. But don't get me wrong, I'd far rather be judged against anything, than for there not to be a concours competition at all. In particular I applaud the judges for their devotion to the cause and, from my own experience, their fairness and impartiality. Thanks guys (and gals)!
Phil
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gerald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2009 at 3:44pm
could anyone tell me are the points being changed back around now back to 1 point  10,000 in concourse?
gerald 323i e36 coupe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davebrindlee36m3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 10:48am

gerald your car is a garage queen without the garage. LOL keep up the good work.Tongue

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gerald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 11:00am
i started a bit of a stir up there didnt i im not doin concourse any more anywayLOL
gerald 323i e36 coupe
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davebrindlee36m3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davebrindlee36m3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 11:11am
it went on and on and on. longer than cory. Ermm
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