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Todays Gaydon 14th August

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safe1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 3:51pm
Many Thankyous Clap to ALL the Doers-- Office staff and Club members who put in a Great amount of work, to make this Day a Success.PRE booking a Model space in by a cut off date according to Numbers, made the displays easier to place, and painless for the drivers AND Marshals---  
Congratulations to UK Highways for the New M40 road  layouts to Gaydon--Clap and to Gaydon Heritage Management--for the very much improved Access and NEW Museum---Ready for 2017???.
                                   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rpennington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 6:37pm
Thanks to all those involved today in making this event a good one. It was also good to catch up with those that know me.

Regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 7:23pm
I found it distinctly underwhelming - a very obvious drop in attendance and a lot of empty parking spots. 

Thanks to all who put the effort in, but I feel Gaydon has run its course now. Same old, same old. How many years has it been now....?

The new Jaguar museum was the highlight! Obviously work in progress but it shows a lot of promise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Rice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 9:01pm
It did seem empty but i feel this was added to by the cars going off to the 100 year photo shoot.
I parked upon the Eastern region section proudly displaying the region Flag. Although we had a small representation of 7 vehicles, as vehicles slowly took there place for the Photo it left me and 1 other vehicle
left on display under the eastern banner, by 2pm it all seemed to go very flat, and as my fellow Eastern member decided enough was enough i too decided to make my way for the 2 hour trip home.
The improvements to the site as a Museum are to be applauded but don't think Gaydon will be on my calendar for next year.   


Edited by Bowler - 14 Aug 2016 at 9:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Conuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by AndrewE AndrewE wrote:

I found it distinctly underwhelming - a very obvious drop in attendance and a lot of empty parking spots.

Interesting how we all have a different take on the event. I couldn't go last year and noticed a big increase in attendance from 2 years ago. Yes, there were lots of spaces but that was due to a significant number of cars lining up for the 100 year photo shoot elsewhere in the grounds. I thought it was pretty busy with lots to look at. Went to the celebration dinner the night before and that just added to a great weekend for me & Mrs C. I thought the ramp idea was good and the driving challenge shows some promise (thought that area needed to be a bit bigger). Traders were good standard but would be great if we could attract some more. Could've used some sounds to liven things up a bit whilst the announcer wasn't interviewing folk about their cars but other than that I thought it was a definitive improvement and bodes well for the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael Barron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 9:46pm
I thought the same thing Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MHunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 10:43pm
I thought it was a good day as always, and we should always keep in mind that the organisers put so much time and effort in - many thanks for that.
 
A flipside of the photo was that the event felt more spread out, and made the main area quieter - but I think in years to come the scale of the photo will be seen as a great achievement and it will be worth the effort ...... add to that he photo formation was like an extra display.
 
I thought the new Jag / Land Rover museum was a bit odd.  Who on earth decided that only 3 unisex toilet cubicles in the whole building was a good idea ?!  Perhaps, as others say, a work in progress.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 11:07pm
This was my first time at the National Festival, and I loved it. I feel like I saw about 25% of what there was to see, and spoke to about 5% of the people who I wanted to chat with.
I can see the 100 car photo shoot may have caused holes in other stands - in NE Region all the cars we put the flag stands under went to the photo shoot so we had to do some juggling to keep the flags flying. But I'm sure it will be worth it when we see the photos. 
I liked the club arch where it was. It felt like a real welcoming gesture.
Many thanks to the organizing team. Are 2017 advance tickets on sale yet ???


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neilb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 7:07am
For the first time I was totally underwhelmed, flat, no atmosphere, acres of empty space especially on the M-Power stand, better trade than before but as said I feel its run its course. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ian Conuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 10:29am
Just to add some colour to my earlier comments. Had a pretty full day at Gaydon yesterday - good to catch up with friends as always. Some pics from me:

My ///m coupe in good company












Nice car & plate ;-)


Some modified










...and a jet powered bike Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 11:46am
I thought it was one of the best I had been to in the last few years. Much more of a club feel to it. I liked the fact that I did not have to pass a line of cars which were not club members parked on the spine road on the way in.

Individual groups of regions or registers have to organise themselves and if there were gaps in the "M" section, guess ask those owners where they were? I don't have one, so did not take much notice.

In the ALPINA area we just squeezed in our allocated space with only one non attendee, Simon Alcorn & Tracey Boulter did a great job from 7 am parking up the cars and it was a good display.

To be fair the Wessex region which I belong only had 4 cars in it when I went over, but some had gone on the photo shoot. A fair few of us are ALPINA owners and parked in that section.

I spoke to most people who were running the trade stands and they seemed pretty happy, we marked out their areas the day before. I enjoyed the jags and Leyland cars in the new building. Won a prize on the tombola and chatted to what seems to be about 100 people I know.


I thought it was great, sorry others were disappointed, hope to see you there next time and perhaps a few will volunteer to help out?

Thanks to Club office staff who worked hard and to those Directors who also made a valuable contribution in the build up and breakdown.

One observation, the ramp I would not like to drive my car on, needs a rethink and also a better arena for the Mr Deeks Q & A session, as well as a confirmed time for the concours prize giving as many missed it when they are spread over a large area.



Edited by Norrie - 15 Aug 2016 at 11:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neilb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 12:30pm
I was also having kittens about the 'comedy bike' mob weaving in and out of cars on the M-Power stand... Any need? Really?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DAVE P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 12:32pm
As per Norrie I also thought it was one of the best in recent years, looking forward to next year already. Keep up the good work
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 12:58pm
The weaving in and out of peoples cars, would have not pleased me, accidents can happen. I hope the Directors made the appropriate risk assessment, but it would not help to encourage me if I thought my pride and joy was at any risk of damage. That's a fair point and I hope that all the observations, good or bad are reviewed by the Board. It is only by this feed back can improvements be made, so when people post detail, bear with them, it really is valuable.

I have to say, I was glad it was not cover in the cloud of smoke or steam or whatever it was that was emitted from the bike.

Perhaps also a consideration for the club would be a raffle of a used BMW. I was at a Jag show and they do this every year. The tickets cost one pound a time and are sold well in advance and on the day. The then draw it later in the year. This raises considerable funds for their club and is not restricted to just jag purchaser for the tickets. Would be nice to win a car for a pound, even a used one in good condition with 12 months MOT.

Edited by Norrie - 15 Aug 2016 at 2:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Norrie Norrie wrote:

The weaving in and out of peoples cars, would have not pleased me, accidents can happen. I hope the Directors made the appropriate risk assessment, but it would not help to encourage me if I thought my pride and joy was at any risk of damage. That's a fair point and I hope that all the observations, good or bad are reviewed by the Board. It is only by this feed back can improvements be made, so when people post detail, bear with them, it really is valuable.

I have to say, I was glad it was not cover in the cloud of smoke or steam or whatever it was that was emitted from the bike.

Perhaps also a consideration for the club would be a raffle of a used BMW. I was at a Jag show and they do this every year. The tickets cost one pound a time and are sold well in advance and on the day. The then draw it later in the year. This raises considerable funds for their club and is not restricted to just jag purchaser for the tickets. Would be nice to win a car for a pound, even a used one in good condition with 12 months MOT.

I agree with this - I was a JEC member back in the good old days.

The jet bike was a massive injury claim just waiting to happen, just ridiculous.

Back to Gaydon; I think this will be my last. Of course you're not going to reorganise it just to please an individual, but general consensus says it was just flat and lacking in any atmosphere. What you need to consider is the number of new attendees versus old stagers like me who have been coming here for the last 10 or 15 years. In that past it's been a good social event, but numbers of friends are dwindling because like me, they can't be bothered to go to the same event with the same cars and same people every year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gazza4266 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 5:05pm
Seems a mix feeling here.
The last time I went was in 2008 and still see some old friends I made way back then chatting about car or cars they now own.
The thing for me I've visited 5 regions been to Santa pod twice went to essen with the club so you can imagine for me there were lots of people to chat to.
Maybe I am wrong but those of you who I see just sitting in your deck chair behind your car dribbling if you got off your bum and chatted to people even a show with ten cars wouldn't be boring .
Great show as every show I've been to and good job on the club.
Just one critisism don't do the bike thing again .I didn't get it at all.
Thank for reading and no doubt some won't agree or like my comment but like you all its my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 6:00pm
There appeared to be a large empty area cordoned off where some comedy* non working bikes were being ridden around. Certainly - the arena nearest the Jaguar museum should have been packed with cars yet was virtually empty.

No E30 M3 30 years display then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BSS. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 6:19pm
Firstly i would like to acknowledge the effort and in most cases unpaid time that many people put in to getting the show to happen in the first place.

Ive been going to Gaydon on and off for 10 years now and on the whole the format has not changed one bit, may be a few tweaks some of which have not gone down too well with some (the jet bike being a prime example). I treat the event as a social event to catch up with people in person that in many cases i only get to chat to via forums and social media as well as getting to check out some interesting cars and displaying one of mine.

The general consensus out in social media and on several forums I'm on is not a positive one especially due to placement of some forums display areas and confusion as to where there were meant to go on the morning, including the forum section i was displaying with this year which i will add is the first year i have not displayed with the usual register section i normally do.

I do feel that the format as a stand alone item has run its corse and is losing interest for many. A change of venue to somewhere track based such as Silverstone, Donnington, Rockingham etc would be advantageous in my opinion as having a static display event you could also have use of the track for parade laps and more importantly track action as lets be fair, Motorsport is a BIG part of what BMW and its heritage is about not to mention it provides a wider interest to people. Many people like to see and hear our beloved cars in action and that does not include bouncing the engine off the rev limiter in a car park!

Changing to that kind of venue would not only revitalise a flagging BMWCC main event but also make it truly feel like more of a festival event rather than a load of cars scattered about a car park and hillside.






Edited by BSS. - 15 Aug 2016 at 6:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mazm3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by Norrie Norrie wrote:

I thought it was one of the best I had been to in the last few years. Much more of a club feel to it. I liked the fact that I did not have to pass a line of cars which were not club members parked on the spine road on the way in.

Individual groups of regions or registers have to organise themselves and if there were gaps in the "M" section, guess ask those owners where they were? I don't have one, so did not take much notice.

In the ALPINA area we just squeezed in our allocated space with only one non attendee, Simon Alcorn & Tracey Boulter did a great job from 7 am parking up the cars and it was a good display.

To be fair the Wessex region which I belong only had 4 cars in it when I went over, but some had gone on the photo shoot. A fair few of us are ALPINA owners and parked in that section.

I spoke to most people who were running the trade stands and they seemed pretty happy, we marked out their areas the day before. I enjoyed the jags and Leyland cars in the new building. Won a prize on the tombola and chatted to what seems to be about 100 people I know.


I thought it was great, sorry others were disappointed, hope to see you there next time and perhaps a few will volunteer to help out?

Thanks to Club office staff who worked hard and to those Directors who also made a valuable contribution in the build up and breakdown.

One observation, the ramp I would not like to drive my car on, needs a rethink and also a better arena for the Mr Deeks Q & A session, as well as a confirmed time for the concours prize giving as many missed it when they are spread over a large area.


Perhaps you would like an event that just encompasses you and club members only then? Would you complain if it was an "alpina" row of cars down the spine road? Probably not.

Thing is, the standard of cars down the spine road in previous years are so good it used to be a memorable part of the event. I wonder how busy the show will be if non "club" members didnt attend?

The event wasnt fantastic was it? Maybe in your little section you and your friends were happy being parked alongside alpinas and the like but a show on this scale (well at least like the one advertised) needs to accomodate for more than just "club members" to be a success
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote issus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 8:46pm
Interesting post. We do make it difficult for ourselves when we have to control parking for so many individual "parties":  Registers , MPower, Regional, 3 Series, Alpina's  etc etc . Some of the best meetings I have been to is where you just park on arrival; so you could end up next to car/people from Wales or Cornwall for example. I found the ambience of such situations stimulating and ensures you speak to your neighbour and in all likelihood end up as friends. Now if people wish to be within a specific group, just arrange to meet nearby and time your arrival at the Show(by convoy) coordinated by the Gaydon Committee to ensure tailibacks are minimised. Or at the very least just retain specialized sections but the Regions just park up on arrival.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 8:13am
In reply to the person MAZM3. Firstly I did not describe it as fantastic. Secondly, whilst I have no objection to anyone who wants to attend buying a ticket, the event is the BMW Car Club event. I always felt that club members were getting second best, so yes I was quite pleased that it had changed.

However, as a member I don't see why I should be shoe horned to accommodate non members. Members should always be given priority.


Those people and groups who do not want to join the official BMW Car Club, for whatever reason (and I am not debating that) may have to accept they are not going to get the best positions and also they might not get as much footfall.

There are potentially a number of options, which might be, for example anyone with an M, member or not member parks with the M cars. We do away with regional parking and individual groups or separate clubs.

I suspect there would be almost as many who do not like this idea as those who would have no objection and as Issus suggests would have greater interaction.

Indeed, there might be an argument for members only, perhaps anyone wanting to go who is a non member pays their fee and has it deducted from the membership fee and pays the balance. They then get in and become a member with equal rights!

It may have run it's course. I am a Silverstone Racing Club member, many events in the year where racing of certain types of vehicle takes place only attracts a few hundred people. I have suggested before to the club that they might investigate holding the National event on one of those occasions. There is plenty of room, some track action and it surely would add something to a very under utilised facility. I also think the event should be held for two days, the whole set up and close down is onerous for one day.

What is not needed, is the alleged abuse given to those staff from Gaydon who asked some attendees not to speed, spin wheels, doughnutting or other antics.     

Edited by Norrie - 16 Aug 2016 at 9:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 12:48pm
I enjoyed the day, spending time looking at many of the cars and chatting to their owners.  This for me is a major attraction of the event, to be able to talk to other folk about their vehicles, particularly ones similar to my own.

It was a pity that the 100 car photo shoot took so long to get positioned, although I appreciate that the marshals did their best in the circumstances.  Still, that’s a one-off, so won’t be done again, at least not in my life time!

I, too, was concerned about the bikes, particularly when young kids were on them and they started weaving in and out of the parked cars.  My initial thought was, what’s it got to do with BMWs?  Whilst I don’t claim to be a strict environmentalist, I wondered about possible contaminants emitted from the jet bike’s exhaust.

Personally, I quite like the parking arrangements for the different registers and areas.  But as mentioned earlier, the M-Power parking area seemed remarkably empty, even before folk went off for the photo shoot, compared to some other zones which seemed to be oversubscribed.

Finally, a big thank you to the club and everybody who worked so hard, planning and setting up this event. Well done! Clap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 5:34pm
Some of the best shows I've been to have been in Holland and Germany. No register or area sections, just driven in, parked up in neat rows. That means it takes longer to walk around, thus you see more. Back in the earlier days of Gaydon, when you were bored at seeing the same cars as the previous year, and the year before that, you could wander up too the big overflow car park where all kinds of intertesting stuff could be found.

What's the big deal about regional parking? Do visitors really care if you're from Ross On Wye?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mazm3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Norrie Norrie wrote:

In reply to the person MAZM3. Firstly I did not describe it as fantastic. Secondly, whilst I have no objection to anyone who wants to attend buying a ticket, the event is the BMW Car Club event. I always felt that club members were getting second best, so yes I was quite pleased that it had changed.

However, as a member I don't see why I should be shoe horned to accommodate non members. Members should always be given priority.


Those people and groups who do not want to join the official BMW Car Club, for whatever reason (and I am not debating that) may have to accept they are not going to get the best positions and also they might not get as much footfall.

There are potentially a number of options, which might be, for example anyone with an M, member or not member parks with the M cars. We do away with regional parking and individual groups or separate clubs.

I suspect there would be almost as many who do not like this idea as those who would have no objection and as Issus suggests would have greater interaction.

Indeed, there might be an argument for members only, perhaps anyone wanting to go who is a non member pays their fee and has it deducted from the membership fee and pays the balance. They then get in and become a member with equal rights!

It may have run it's course. I am a Silverstone Racing Club member, many events in the year where racing of certain types of vehicle takes place only attracts a few hundred people. I have suggested before to the club that they might investigate holding the National event on one of those occasions. There is plenty of room, some track action and it surely would add something to a very under utilised facility. I also think the event should be held for two days, the whole set up and close down is onerous for one day.

What is not needed, is the alleged abuse given to those staff from Gaydon who asked some attendees not to speed, spin wheels, doughnutting or other antics.     

The thing is tarring us all with the same brush is a common trait shared by those who are scared of change.  Hearsay about "abuse" given to marshalls or witnessing spirited driving in cars more than capable of such antics (and designed for said driving) is typical of somebody who doesnt like the fact that the new generation isnt remotely like themselves
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 12:07am
I witnessed some idiots, driving too fast and spinning wheels at Gaydon. Not acceptable. Want to go fast then get on the track or the autobahn, I had no problem doing 180 mph in my unrestricted Alpina in Germany last year.

I really do not care who or from which group the persons who caused the issue were, club members of not, no matter what model, it is not acceptable and I would like to see whoever it was banned in future.

Edited by Norrie - 17 Aug 2016 at 12:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 8:35am
I was unable to attend Gaydon, but the thought of idiots on bicycles taking risks with other people's cars, and the lunatic fringe trying to emulate  stunts from 'Fast and Furious' makes me glad I did not attend.  It is to be hoped that these events were very few, and will be ruthlessly stamped out in future - it is probably one of the hazards of opeining the event tothe public.

I doubt if any of their cars were 'designed' for such (ab)use, at the hands of those with insufficient discretion to be trusted with anything more whan a wheelbarrow!

Do-nutting, wheel spinning, and attempted drifting are antics beloved by those who have been raised in front of a television screen, and whose driving horizons are very limited - it takes more than a fast car to make a fast driver . . .

If that is a sign of the future, then please count me out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Conuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 9:28am
Probably worth putting this in context.

I was there all day and heard one car wheel spinning along the exit road - hotly pursued by a museum off-roader with flashing blue lights. That's just one car, one too many but still just one.

The jet bike was encouraged to do a demo ride by the crowd at the car stage and the announcer. In fact, it proved so popular that he was asked to do another later on. It was an impromptu thing, ill-advised in hindsight but no harm was done and I suspect a lesson learned for the future.
1998 z3m coupe

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MHunt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MHunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 9:31am
To keep this in proportion I didn't witnrss any bad driving do expect that was a v small minority - surely inevitable with 100s of people.

But agree on the stunt bikes. It was clearly a well intentioned attempt to entertain the whole family, but there needs to be a demarcated area. I suspect this happened near my car, and I'm glad I didn't witness it.

As always some lessons to learn, but I still enjoy it purely as a way of catching up. I saw a friends old m5, and was able to put the new owner in touch, such that he could find out more about his car. This is what it is all about for me....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dteagles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 9:39am
Originally posted by Ian Conuel Ian Conuel wrote:

Probably worth putting this in context.

I was there all day and heard one car wheel spinning along the exit road - hotly pursued by a museum off-roader with flashing blue lights. That's just one car, one too many but still just one.

The jet bike was encouraged to do a demo ride by the crowd at the car stage and the announcer. In fact, it proved so popular that he was asked to do another later on. It was an impromptu thing, ill-advised in hindsight but no harm was done and I suspect a lesson learned for the future.

It's amazing how a couple of isolated incidents can be blown out of all proportion...

Re the jet bike, why do you think this was ill advised Ian? He was only going at pretty low speed as far as I could see and provided some interest and spectacle for onlookers?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 10:01am
The point is surely there should be no incidents. Members of the club have to abide by the rules and one hopes that they do. Guests are not bound by the rules, but clearly Gaydon management felt the need to Police the event, hence the presence of vehicles with flashing lights.

It is the Directors of the Club who have the onerous commitment for Health & Safety and Public liability, so crowd and visitor control is a matter for them.

The issue is one person starts doing something they think is "fun" and then other join in, I am all for fun, but not at the expense of others or safety.

I do agree it was a very small minority and should not be taken out of context of the vast majority had a super time without incident.

Perhaps the drone might have captured any activity? I would also like to say to the chap with the M3, I did not attempt to identify and person of group and if he felt " they", who they are were being tarred, perhaps he knows more than I do? I have no idea who it was, mine was a general comment.

Edited by Norrie - 17 Aug 2016 at 10:05am
n
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